[Info] Cross breeders
By Retired breeder, 3rd April 2010 20:13:43
Finally a post just for us cross breeders. The purpose of this topic is for cross breeders to have a place to discuss their crossbreeding programs and to share crossbreeding secrets and advice with others who may be interested in giving crossbreeding a try. Feel free to talk about your crossbreeding programs and your achievements and failures in crossbreeding. Please remember to follow the rules of the forum and be informative and helpful.  */*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/* Reminder to all. Please do not advertise sales or items wanted in this topic. I can turn a blind eye to the covers being offered (as long as they are not blatant advertisements) because we are, after all, trying to help each other progress and there is no filter on public covers for searching for crosses, but items sales and items wanted do not belong in any of the public forums and we have a sales forum for horse sales so please, lets keep our topic clean of the ads. Thanks everyone */*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*  There are reasons for rules and everyone is expected to follow them. There will be no posting of advertisements in this topic and everyone is expected to be respectful. Any disrespect towards fellow players or moderators will not be tolerated. Anyone posting advertisements will receive a forum ban without prior warning. If breaking of rules continues to take place in this topic I will delete it. Thank you zepharo *)*)*) Edit by pixiesbite If anyone has personal issues with another player, or needs something back from another player(items/passes), other than covers/fills-please take it to private pms...anymore posting here will mean an instant forum ban without a warning. Edit by pixiesbite A reminder that this is not the place for trading/buying/selling BMI, horses or advertising or asking for someone to train your horse. If any of these things occur, you will be forum banned without prior warning. |
Me *personally,* a Mawari or Lippizan.
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Selle/KWPN is pretty popular, and I've lately seen a lot of TB/Paints Here's a list of breeds with the same top 3 skills to give you some ideas: Selle Français: jumping, speed, dressage, stamina, gallop, trot Australian Pony: jumping, speed, dressage, gallop, stamina, trot Shetland: Jumping, speed, dressage, stamina, gallop, trot Morgan: Dressage, jumping, speed, stamina, trot, gallop KWPN: dressage, jumping, speed, gallop, trot, stamina Thoroughbred: Gallop, speed, dressage, stamina, jumping, trot Quarter Horse: Gallop, dressage, speed, jumping, stamina, trot Welsh: Gallop, dressage, speed, jumping, stamina, trot Paint Horse: Speed, dressage, gallop, stamina, jumping, trot Purebred Spanish Horse: Speed, dressage, gallop, stamina, jumping, trot Chincoteague Pony: speed, gallop, dressage,stamina, jumping, trot Appaloosa: Speed, gallop, dressage, jumping, stamina, trot
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Hi everyone!
 I´m an old player on this server, and started playing here again. I love to crossbreeding and playing on the Swedish server as well. I want some advice, I have a mare (on the Swedish server) named Spencer. She´s a 50% Tennessee Walker (dominant)/Lusitano cross. I don´t know which breed to breed her with. Her skillset is in this order: Trot, Dressage and Stamina. I want to increase the speed skill on her foal. I was thinking of breeding her with a French trotter, but aren´t any good public covers. Do you have an idea of which breed(s) I could use? We don´t have the Peruvian Paso on the Swedish server, so that´s not an option.
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Does the server have standardbred? High trot, good speed and dressage. |
Sorry, meant "high trot, good speed and decent dressage."
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limecyanide - The Swedish server don´t have these breeds: Peruvian Paso, Standardbred, Australian Pony, Morgan and Chincoteague Pony.
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Thinking of breeding my Shagya Arabian and my Irish Hunter mares, anyone have any good breed recommendations?
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Well, how about a curly? Shagya: a vanner or akhal-teke would be your usual choice, others include barb, canadian, and connemara. Crossing with a russian don would increase the jumping skill without affecting stamina and dressage too much. Hunter: camargue, lipizzan, haflinger, possible trakehner to bring gallop up. |
Thank you!
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Does anyone have the time or patients to list all horse breeds and group them but their top 3's or have a link to site or something where I can find the information myself? I'm trying to do a stamina, speed, and dressage heavy build that will have a twist, hopefully it works out.
Thank you in advance
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As requested, I have complied an organized list of riding horses by their top skill. Their secondary skills are listed after their breed name in the appropriate order.
Stamina Click to display Akhal-Teke /// Dressage, Jumping Arabian Horse /// Dressage, Jumping Argentinean Criollo /// Dressage, Speed Barb /// Dressage, Jumping Camargue /// Dressage, Gallop Curly /// Trot, Speed Icelandic Horse /// Dressage, Trot Shagya Arabian /// Dressage, Jumping Thoroughbred /// Gallop, Dressage Vanner /// Dressage, Jumping Speed Click to display Appaloosa /// Gallop, Dressage Brumby /// Stamina, Jumping Mustang /// Stamina, Gallop Paint Horse /// Jumping, Gallop Purebred Spanish Horse /// Dressage, Stamina Dressage Click to display Friesian /// Jumping, Stamina Irish Hunter /// Stamina, Gallop KWPN /// Jumping, Speed Knabstrupper /// Trot, Jumping Lipizzan /// Gallop, Stamina Lusitano /// Trot, Gallop Morgan /// Jumping, Speed Nokota /// Trot, Jumping Gallop Click to display Marwari /// Stamina, Speed Quarter Horse /// Dressage, Stamina Trakehner /// Jumping, Stamina Trot Click to display French Trotter /// Speed, Stamina Hackney /// Stamina, Speed Peruvian Paso /// Speed, Dressage Standardbred /// Speed, Stamina Tennessee Walker /// Stamina, Dressage Jumping Click to display Canadian Horse /// Dressage, Stamina Hanoverian /// Speed, Gallop Holsteiner /// Dressage, Speed Russian Don Horse /// Stamina, Dressage Selle Français /// Stamina, Dressage
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Follow up from this post; the second generation of my perfect 5-way split maintains the same breed list order as the parents. It does not change.
So either this is new information to the usual pattern of equal-split foals following the bottom breed of the mare, or my 5-way split isn't ACTUALLY 20% each, but instead something like 20.0001% Walker and 19.9999% everything else, but nonetheless showing as 20% "in the front."
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By Retired breeder, 24th September 2020 22:12:42
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Depends completely on your goal. What's your goal?
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If you're looking to stay with the same overall skill set, Icelandic horses, Tennessee Walkers, and Hackneys have the same top 3 skills (though the order may be different).
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Here's another 5-way experiment
I took two perfect 4-way splits — theTB/Standardbred/PSH/Arab stud blq,blq and the dam Mustang/QH/Brumby/Appaloosa creeper — and bred them together, accurately predicting that it would only take five of the eight breeds. The two 1st gen offspring — see them here and here — took the following breed pattern: Mare Breed 1 Mare Breed 2 Mare Breed 3 Mare Breed 4 Stud Breed 1 I bred those two 1st gen offspring to create this 2nd gen offspring who has maintained the same breed order. All of this tells me that when you have a perfect 5-way split, the breed pattern does not change since this experiment can't possibly have the issue I suspected might have been in play with my prior experiment. My next experiment will be to create two lines of 5-way splits that have the same breeds, but in different order, then breed those to see what happens.
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In pursuit of my new experiment, I had to test the rules of 4-way crosses regarding breed order. This might be old news, but just in case, this is what I found:
When producing a 4-way cross from two different F1s, the breed order seems to be... Breed 1 = Stud's 2nd breed Breed 2 = Stud's 1st breed Breed 3 = Dam's 2nd breed Breed 4 = Dam's 1st breed I found this out using Hannah's Face, a Welsh/Walker F1 and covering her with three different F1 studs. Her offspring are as follows: Dunner's Face Jassy's Face Stud's Face
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So, if I understand this correctly, a 4-way split will take on the stud's second breed appearance? And stay the same, if those foals are bred? Or will it pick the second breed on the list and keep alternating the end result? Might need to take a look at my own projects and modify my strategy. I thought doing a 25% mix with no dominant breed would randomly select one of them... Now that I know there Is a way to "select" what breed will come out, I can hopefully achieve my goals without upsetting my OCD with uneven numbers.  |
Correct, if the breeds are all different between the two parents.
If the parents have the same breeds between the two, then it should take the dam's last listed breed. That's how it worked the past. I haven't bred any recent crosses to see if it's been flipped on its head again Breed order on the genetics list used to be random, but I think we had a discussion about and ran some tests awhile back that showed the order may not be random anymore. I'd have to dig back through the topic to recall what we talked about
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As I have posted above, this HAS NOT been the case with my perfect 5-way splits. See the horses linked in my 30th September 2020 22:06:26 post, or my "is a 5-way filler" affix, for corroboration of this. They all maintain the same breed order. I have not yes bred two perfect 4-way splits with the same breeds together yet to see if they follow the "takes the dam's bottom breed" rule. I might try that. Or I might not waste the APs on it. Who knows. If I do wind up testing it, I will report back.
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Turns out I was curious so I blew the APs.
I bred F1 (Welsh/Walker) Hannah's Face to F1 (QH/Appy) Stud several times since Stud conveniently had several additional public coverings still available. All four of the resulting 1st-gen 4-way foals — see them here(1), here(2), here(3), and here(4) — had the following breed pattern: Breed 1 = Stud's 2nd breed (Appy) Breed 2 = Stud's 1st breed (QH) Breed 3 = Dam's 2nd breed (Walker) Breed 4 = Dam's 1st breed (Welsh) I then bred two of those foals — Stud's Face 1 and Stud's Face 4 — together to get the 2nd-gen 4-way splits. See them here and here. Their breed order was the complete opposite of their parents': Breed 1 = Welsh Breed 2 = Walker Breed 3 = QH Breed 4 = Appy I then bred those two to produce the 3rd gen of 4-way splits which I accurately predicted would re-reverse the breed pattern back to Appy/QH/Walker/Welsh. See them here and here. And now I'm going to stop blowing APs.
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Thank you so much for your troubles! This really helps me a lot, now I can get into full planning mode deciding what breeds I want to come first. Right now I'm on a project to find a mix that'd do well in reining and would have gallop as their top skill. Taking note of AdmYrrek's efforts, I'll have to set the breeds up so that they come out as the two ones I like most - irish hunters and marwari. The other breeds in the mix are lipizzan and trakehner, although I've noticed that a camargue x welsh could work as a side project, too. The other western projects are barrel racing (50% brumby, 25% marwari, 25% mustang) and western pleasure (4-way split between tennessee walker, hackney, curly, and friesian), with brumby and curly as the uncommon dominant breeds because of their skillset. Neither one matches one particular competition like most of Howrse's breeds, so I've decided to modify them for the fun of it. Anyway, I really just wanted to thank AdmYrrek for using all those aging points to provide us information on the subject. Cheers.  |
It looks like there is still some randomness that is happening with breed order in 4 ways. These are the only links I have at the moment, as I 'm on my phone, and it's difficult to grab links, and compare results.
The parents are: MustangxV sire AppxSelle dam Their Vanner dominant foal I bred in March with a Vanner/Mustang/Appaloosa/Selle order. I bred 2 new foals today. The first foal had a different breed order Oct foal 1:Appy/Mustang/Vanner/Selle Second foal had the same order as the foal bred in March: Oct foal 2Vanner/Mustang/Appaloosa/Selle I bred another pair that had some mixed results too. The foals didn't all have the same breed order. Dominant breed always came out the same though. I usually suggest breeding a test foal before you plan on using Tears, if you're not sure.
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Your dam here actually has the breed order Selle/Appy despite being listed as an Appy, so your March foal and today's second foal both follow the Stud2/Stud1/Dam2/Dam1 breed breakdown. Thank you for doing more tests. Your first Oct. foal is interesting since it is following the "take the dam's bottom breed" rule for its breed list, though why it is listed as a Vanner is curious. Something of a wild card.
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