[Info] NIB Horses
By Retired breeder, 17th November 2009 23:20:05
It's about time the NIB breeders had their own corner of the world  Curious about NIB horses? Want to know what a NIB horse is? You've come to the right place! What is this topic for? NIB enthusiasts to find each other and help one another progress in their respective games. Otherwise, you may use this topic to help others learn about NIBs, share your experience, and find friends that breed NIBs  Please do not use this topic for advertising horses for sale. The NIB FAQ: What is a NIB horse? A NIB horse is a horse that is not inbred; every horse in its pedigree appears only once (with the exception of Ouranos and Gaia). Horses with "Horse Disappeared" in their pedigree are generally not accepted by NIB breeders unless the horses in question were bought before the horses disappeared and have verifiable pedigrees. Are there green star NIB horses? These horses have lower GP than green stars and other top horses, as not inbreeding limits the breeding availability and is slower to progress than breeding brothers to sisters and so forth. **Misabel edit: The first Green star NIB horse was created on February 21, 2011 - a 6th generation Connemara pony with a star in stamina. He was the end result of a lot of hard work and effort, but now that some dedicated breeders have shown it can be done, we all have something to shoot for! Are NIB horses considered better than green stars or inbred horses? Goodness, no! Nobody here is attempting to make that claim. Just like the Zero GP horses, these players choose to play the game in their own challenging way. How can I get involved with NIB breeding? It's simple! Start by purchasing a few foundation horses, or horses whose pedigrees can be tracked down and verified as non-inbred. Then carefully breed them to create foals with good GP's and skills that are not inbred! - Current Top GPs for NIB Horses: (bred with the *original foundies* who had 350-351.2 GP) Akhal-Teke: 433.29 (2*) Appaloosa: 592.04 (10*) 6th Gen Arabians : 847.17 (31*) 3rd Gen Argentinean Criollo: 534.37 (7*) 1st Gen Barbs: 392.93 (1*) Brumbies: 441.30 (2*) Canadian: 710.75 (18*) 2nd gen Curly : 897.50 (33*) 3rd Gen Donkeys: 300.42 Friesian : 507.78 (6*) 2nd Gen Gypsy Vanner: 565.03 (9*) Hackneys: 608.80 (11*) 2nd Gen Hanoverians: 618.73 (12*) Holsteiner: 584.14 (11*) 1st gen Icelandic Horse: 431.19 (1*) Irish Hunters: 452.22 (2*) Knabstrupper: 564.89 (8*) 1st gen KWPN: 414.32 (1*) Lipizzans: 451.15 (2*) Lusitanos: 558.72 (10*) Marwari: 551.66 (8*) 1st gen Morgans: 411.95 (1*) Mustangs: 419.50 (1*) Nokota : 427.57 (2*) Paints: 461.44 (2*) Peruvian Paso: 441.91 (2*) Purebred Spanish Horse : 509.03 (6*) 1st gen Quarter Horse: 450.30 (2*) Russian Don: 636.94 (13*) Shagya Arabian : 767.55 (25*) 5th gen Standardbreds: 469.76 (3*) Tennessee Walkers: 378.92 (1*) Thoroughbred: 1086.54 (52*) 7th Gen Trakhener: 432.77 (1*) Australian Pony: 581.44 (9*) 1st gen Chincoteague Pony : 575.97 (8*) 1st gen Connemaras: 440.00 (2*) Fjords: 447.42 (1*) Haflingers: 496.41 (4*) Highland Pony: 409.22 Newfoundlands: 417.87 (1*) Quarter Pony: 477.27 (4*) Shetland : 591.53 (11*) 1st gen Welsh: 415.59 (1*) Percherons: 503.74 (3*) Shires: 461.15 (2*) Drum horse: 1911.21 (134*) - Current Top GPs for NIB Horses: (bred with the *'new' foundies* who have the higher GP) Barb : 5010.37 (445*) 2nd gen Camargue : 4944.16 (438*) 2nd Gen Canadians: 4019.57 (346*) 3rd gen Curlys: 4480.67 (391*) Hanoverian: 5510.41 (494*) 1st Gen Holsteiner: 4627.18 (405*) 1st Gen Knabstruppers: 3611.72 Finnish : 7001.13 (*642*) 1st gen French Trotter: 5674.95 (511*) 2nd gen Friesian: 4608.48 (404*) 2nd Gen Lustiano : 4977.80 (441*) 1st gen Mangalarga Marchador: 7417.82 (685*) 4th gen Marwari : 5409.48 (484*) 1st Gen Nokotas: 5283.03 (471*) 3rd Gen Paint Horse: 3094.08 (252*) Purebred Spanish Horse : 6045.91 5th gen Quarter Horse: 3104.63 (253*) Russian Don: 6747.60 (617*) 1st Gen Kerry Bog: 3892.85 (332*) Newfoundland Pony: 6955.84 (639*) 1gen Welsh: 6844.92 (627*) 2nd Gen Ban'ei: 7638.35 (707*) 3rd gen Drum Horse : 2378.86 (181*) 5th Gen Percheron: 5508.49 (494*) 1st Gen Shire : 5067.74 (451*) 2nd Gen Rivenwood's update schedule: Sundays: Players breeding non-inbred horses may post the GPs of the horses they think are amongst the highest in the breed in this topic. Complete details should include everything listed in the form below. **Please DO NOT Submit GPs for rankings EXCEPT on Sunday!** Misabel will post the latest high GP's for NIB horses in each breed from the Sunday submissions. Horses will not be named Please submit your entry to the current high NIB GP using the following format in a post. It is important you use this exact format so Misabel can locate your post easily, or your submission may be missed: My NIB GP Entry Horse's Name: Horse's Breed (purebreds only please): Current GP: Link to the Horse's Page: |
By Retired breeder, 26th November 2009 06:54:11
Rivenwood said on page 3:
"I'd recommend starting with a breed that has a really large base of foundations; the horses available at sign up are great, because there are always new 'foundies' added to the game. It doesn't really matter which breed your choose, but it's always nice to have horses that blup easier than others. If you can locate them in sales, buy at least 10 foundies to start with, preferably 4 stallions and 6 mares. I would encourage you to consider increasing this number to 25, 8 stallions and 16-17 mares, for a broader and more solid base. GP isn't tough; NIB breeding is primarily about great skills and good GP while keeping the horse's bloodlines 'clean'; no inbreeding. Once you have your second and third generations of foals, you should be within 5-6 points of the top GP, and have foals that are valuable as they come from your own lines, something rare other breeders will want to use to expand on. By the 5th to 6th generation (if you started today and worked hard the next week), you could be very close to the top GP bracket and at least over 360GP. I achieved over 360GP at my 4th/5th generation on my connies You can successfully breed NIBs by only blupping one horse a day, or even just a few horses per week. I had not touched my connies for months and in August/September decided to play with them a bit again. Within 2 weeks I had blupped 3 or 4 horses and was getting foals off them that I sold for a fair bit of money and a few passes each. So, unlike the top ranked GP races, there is a lot less pressure to blup several horses per day. Your horses are still valuable and workable. I get requests to breed to my several-year-old foundations still from NIB breeders, and some of them have under 350.2GP." Hope that helps! And, yes, foundations have Ouranos and Gaia (sp?) as parents. |
I'm so happy to see an NIB thread, thanks Riven. =) Livelyblueyes pointed it out to me.
I breed NIB connemaras; their affix is "of L'Arc-en-Ciel" and the best I've bred so far is a third-gen with 364+ GP. I know that it can get higher though, as I own a fourth-gen bred by a friend who is only a little off 370! All it takes is time and patience (especially if you're limited on passes like me) and a LOT of lines - that's why it's great to find others who focus on the same breed, so you can get foals and coverings from each other. =) I also have a couple of foundie PSHs which I'm blupping on the side, and I try to grab pre-gamed foundies of most breeds if I can't see an NIBer bidding - I've caught Aussie ponies in the past and passed them on so they can be part of an NIB programme. =)
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By Retired breeder, 26th November 2009 09:27:55
I have started collecting NIB friesians. I think there should be more on here. So wish me luck.
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By Retired breeder, 26th November 2009 14:02:51
Heh I honestly do not know where my breeding would be without kaliko99 and HYDEIST . They helped me find the easiest way to keep track of lines by keeping the lines even on both sides.
As was said earlier it's not always about just the gp. A lot of it is how easy are you horses lines to trace. I personally aim for horses with the same amount of generations on each side these days. WHen I first started out I focused more on GP and to be honest it got rather hard to keep track of the blood lines.. When you NIB breed you really have to think way ahead to your future generations. HYDEIST ,kaliko99 and myself heh have had a heck of a time trying to make sure we breed our horses to where we can also use each others stock. You never really get the opportunitity to stop blupping the foundies and stuff as new blood is always needed. It is also hard come by when you get further down into the generations. Hence the need for constant new blood. Personally I am using my Lowlands NIB breeding farm/affix to breed new horses with absolutely no possible relation to any horse in my Horsecreek NIB lines. That way when I do get to my 4th and 5th generations I know I can cross these 2 affixes without worry of inbreeding. I have tried writing down all of my crosses but to be honest the affix/breeding farm method has been my most effective and easiest idea. Once those two become crossed into way future generations a new affix will be used and both will be condensed into one breeding farm. Then a new breeding farm wll begin with a new affix starting from square one. Long involved and a royal pain but I enjoy the challenge involved. |
By Retired breeder, 26th November 2009 14:12:20
I also like to keep my generations even - I select for good GP and especially good GP in the breed's top skill (so will compromise a few tenths of GP for a foal with a better GP in the right skill, for example) but I do like to have the family history even so only breed foundation to foundation and so on.
Although I do breed for a good GP it's not my main focus and the thing I like about NIB is that it's not so much about competition in the way that the GP race is, it's (for me at least) about building your own lines and producing good-quality foals. It doesn't have to be done quickly, which is great. |
By Retired breeder, 26th November 2009 14:29:24
I couldn;t agree more Inner Chorus
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By Retired breeder, 26th November 2009 20:15:12
I am really chuffed that we NIB breeders finally have our own wee corner of howrse to share tips and ideas, as i have been a NIB Connie breeder for over a year and get a great deal of fun from it. My current highest GP is a 5th generation with 372.77 GP
I work up the generations using only 100 blup parents and use only my own lines, or lines from HYDIEST, livelyblueyes and Paddy's mum to ensure that there are no dissapeared howrses in my lines. I occassionally breed a twin, so will sometimes have a top quality NIB foal for sale to any NIB breeder who is looking to add new lines I would be happy to hear from any NIB connie breeders as i think the more of us the better for reaching the elusive NIB greenstar. Also if anyone needs any advice on the easiest way to blup foundies and NIB's just drop me a mail |
I'm just starting out as a NIB breeder of Connies. Thus far I've got four horses in my stable but will be adding more as i go.
I'm going to be taking screen shots of my horses pedigrees to ensure that I have them on record were any of the parent horses to disappear. Any other breeders who are interested in using my foundation stallion are more that welcome to PM me and i will set up a private covering. Dreamer isn't perfect, but he's a real good start towards my goal of having a perfect foal one day
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By Retired breeder, 26th November 2009 20:26:59
If I decide to sell the NIB parents at any point, would it be best to send them to the haven so that they do not disappear from the family tree? I suppose it would be better to put NIB offspring in the private sales or auctions, horses that have not been bred yet.
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By Retired breeder, 26th November 2009 20:33:23
Rivenwood, i know that we are not permitted to advertise on the forums, but was wondering if there was any way we could either include NIB sales here, or have a section for them specifically in Negotiations as it is time consuming trawling the sales and that way we could easily find buyers for the fruits of our hard labour, or arrange trades of foals with other players etc???
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Well this is fantastic! I just looked all the way back through my horses pedigrees and found that my NIB program is totally tanked
 This stinks, I'm going to have to start all over if i really want NIB horses, which I do. This is going to take forever, I can't believe how hard it is to find horses that are NIB.
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By Retired breeder, 26th November 2009 20:59:12
NTCHBL, the best way to do it is to blup and breed all your own, or team up with a few dedicated friends. That guaruntees they are NIB and stops dissapeared lines
Myself and some of my NIB friends will breed you foals to order or will do you a twin from a breeding, if you are willing to pay for it. Pm me to discuss of anyone is interested as i know advrtising on here is against forum rules |
Thanks Kaliko, I'll have to wait until i can save up some batter cash and recoup my losses from my shot program but I do want to start a NIB program myself, I think I'll probably castrate my stallions before i sell them to prevent more inbreeding and keep my mares until they head towards the pearly gates.
*sigh* This is gonna be a challenge for sure.
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By Retired breeder, 26th November 2009 21:16:28
That, NTCHBL, is exactly why I love NIB. I love the extra challenge and you don't have to do it in any rush amount of time. I love it!
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By Retired breeder, 26th November 2009 21:20:17
I agree. Admittedly it is hard work, and when you get to the 5th generation, thats an awful lot of blupping to get there, but its well worth it as its a huge sense of acheivement. I have enjoyed honing my blupping programme to make it work the best for foundies and NIB's. I have found now i hav it workd out, that i can get wins against the 10 and 11 stars in the comps
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By Retired breeder, 26th November 2009 22:35:35
heh yep sure can Kaliko
NTCHBL .. I wouldn;t suggest gelding your stallions unless they are truly poor breeding stock. If they are good to be bred I would highly suggest looking for other NIB breeders. I know when I took my break from Horwse I sent the majority of my foundy stock to individuals I knew would have them around for a long time. ( Hence HYDEIST and kaliko99 got the majority).I know if they were to leave the game they would do the same as I myself did and try to be certain those horses went to other breeders who would continue to either hold them around or eventually haven them. I do however, have to say I have had disappeared horses appear in lines from horses that I know for a fact were havened ages ago. It doesn;t happen often ... however it does happen. It's not always a matter of a retired breeder who deleted the horses with their account. No clue as to why that happens but it does. Anywho though. There are a lot of NIB connie breeders coming up however.. we have lost a few as well. That is the way of NIB's. Kaliko I couldn;t agree more that I would love a place where i can go and instead of trolling through a heap of inbreeds .. just be able to look through and know that i can easily find some NIBS in one spot. You know... we could just put a horse sale forum in our EC's but it still leaves the prob of actually finding individuals who also nib and direct them there. I dunno going to go cook some more food, |
By Retired breeder, 26th November 2009 22:46:22
If anyone is doing NIB Shetlands, drop me a mail. I collected a load of untouched foundies when they came out, but have decided to concentrate on Connies as i dont have time for both
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By Retired breeder, 26th November 2009 22:53:49
I've got some Barbs together and am training them so I can use them for breeding. Most have low BLUP and low skills because they're still quite young. A couple aren't even adults yet.
I like the Barbs more than I thought a few days ago. They are a nice breed. I've given each of my horses a symbol in their name, which matches (for most of them) with a symbol of a horse of the opposite gender. That way, I can keep track of who should be mating with who. As generations go on, I may want to jot down a family tree that I can use to help me keep track. Here is a question: Say that several generations of NIB horses have gone by, and someone wanted to buy one of your NIBs but didn't want to check their entire pedigree. How could you convince them that the horses were NIB? Imagine a ten star NIB horse, for example (far off, possibly, but still...), they'd have to trust the owner's pedigrees unless they want to go back and back and back and back and back through the family tree. |
By Retired breeder, 26th November 2009 23:05:16
Moondale, checking the tree is the only way to be certain. A one star is pretty far off, never mind 10
  The amount of howrses needing blupped even for a one star is fairly astronaumical  |
By Retired breeder, 26th November 2009 23:08:40
Im really like NIB! Its a lot more fun than inbreeding. Oh and if ya'll dont mind me bragging i have a new foal that has 355.09 GP before games, he is only a 2nd generation and his parents didnt have 100 BLUP! Yea yea!
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By Retired breeder, 26th November 2009 23:12:45
Good for you, sidney102!
 I suppose the best way to know whether or not a howrse is NIB after several generations have passed (not counting checking the family tree) would be to go to a breeder you trust...Sticking to your own lines would probably be best for breeding, though, unless you can trace the tree. |
kaliko99,
. You mentioned you had developed a methodology that helps you win in comps against greenstars and the like. Would you be willing to share your findings? I am sure that a lot of us with foundations and early generation would love to have a way to win some comps. . Thank you. If you are uncomfortable about posting it here where greenstar breeders can read it and then develop ways to counteract it, would you be willing to share it individually with NIBs or post it on your EC's forum? . Yankee Lady .
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By Retired breeder, 27th November 2009 00:56:25
Yes, i would also like to hear your method for when i deside to BLUP my horses.
I have a tip. This is what i do, i just skip the comp's (other than entering them for the skill gain) and wait intel there about 10 bold there top three skills, it can give farely good BLUP. it does not get you the BEST hores you can but, it helps if you have a limited number of passes/aging points. |
By Retired breeder, 27th November 2009 00:57:38
Sorry i meant "bold there top three skills and wait intel there about 10 to breed them".
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By Retired breeder, 27th November 2009 00:59:17
The best way I have found is to use the lower range of competitions. Your typical greenstars and such cannot enter them. The majority of my horses end up being blupped right after dressage and gallop have been trained up. I know most do speed and dressage but those low level barrel races are super easy to get your wins in on and you can start with zero speed. Leaves a very small chance of having to compete against the big boys.
If you are comping against a greenstar with no inbreds odds are you have them beat from the get go as the breeding on them at that point is no better than your basic foundy. |