[Info] Cross breeders

By Retired breeder, 3rd April 2010 20:13:43
459
Finally a post just for us cross breeders. The purpose of this topic is for cross breeders to have a place to discuss their crossbreeding programs and to share crossbreeding secrets and advice with others who may be interested in giving crossbreeding a try. Feel free to talk about your crossbreeding programs and your achievements and failures in crossbreeding.
Please remember to follow the rules of the forum and be informative and helpful. default smiley :-))

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Reminder to all.

Please do not advertise sales or items wanted in this topic. I can turn a blind eye to the covers being offered (as long as they are not blatant advertisements) because we are, after all, trying to help each other progress and there is no filter on public covers for searching for crosses, but items sales and items wanted do not belong in any of the public forums and we have a sales forum for horse sales so please, lets keep our topic clean of the ads.

Thanks everyone

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There are reasons for rules and everyone is expected to follow them. There will be no posting of advertisements in this topic and everyone is expected to be respectful. Any disrespect towards fellow players or moderators will not be tolerated. Anyone posting advertisements will receive a forum ban without prior warning. If breaking of rules continues to take place in this topic I will delete it.

Thank you
zepharo

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Edit by pixiesbite

If anyone has personal issues with another player, or needs something back from another player(items/passes), other than covers/fills-please take it to private pms...anymore posting here will mean an instant forum ban without a warning.

Edit by pixiesbite

A reminder that this is not the place for trading/buying/selling BMI, horses or advertising or asking for someone to train your horse.
If any of these things occur, you will be forum banned without prior warning.
 
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By Retired breeder, 24th August 2019 05:06:53
What do you guys think of arab x selle francais? Good jumping prospect?
By weepingangel5151, 25th August 2019 12:33:25
Does anyone know what kind of low level comps thoroughbred X selles would be good at? I have two I'm trying to get their twenty wins for and their brother didn't seem to be doing too well in any of them. I'm not sure if I picked the wrong discipline for him or if I trained him up too high and put him in the wrong level competitions.
weepingangel5151
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By BRM, 25th August 2019 13:49:30


If he's in Classical, try Trot races.
BRM
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By Retired breeder, 1st September 2019 18:50:14
Back at my old antics creating top quality crosses! Here are a few of my current project horses. default smiley :d

Skiller KWPN Top GP
Lyralani
Kalyndra-5%coat
Lander
By I4Horses, 2nd September 2019 17:44:06


Very late to reply... but I bred a couple;

Bonsai - Rosette winner in both Jumping & Cross Country.

Also bred an Arabian dominant (50%) with both Selle & Gypsy in which turned out quite nice...

Seeing Red
I4Horses
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By Retired breeder, 2nd September 2019 18:00:49
I was bored and bred a Selle and a TB to create this

Emerald

almost fully trained her and wish I had BMIs because her skills seem pretty high! Any rosette chances with this one?
By Retired breeder, 2nd September 2019 18:04:21
okay Emerald is deffo not the horse I meant to link,

I meant to link this boi

Selley
By Retired breeder, 2nd September 2019 18:05:01
if anyone has any tips with cross breeding Selles please message me !
By Retired breeder, 8th September 2019 03:56:22
Bred this lovely boy today and a twin! he has already started winning rosettes, and I can't wait to see where he places for his breed after tonight's update.default smiley :d

Hunter's Bounty
By Hopeless♡Romantic, 8th September 2019 20:51:49
Does anyone have a list of the best skills for every horse? or does anyone know how to list them? Do I just go from best to worst in the breed page from the directories?
Hopeless♡Romantic
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By Legacy Ann, 9th September 2019 13:59:27

I made one some years ago that I just wrote out on a piece of paper, but I can't remember what I did with it.

You can go to the horse directories, and go through each breed's stats page, listing their highest skill to lowest skill. The stats page doesn't list them in order like that, so you'll have to do it yourself though. It's easy enough to do, it just takes some time.
Legacy Ann
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By Edenm, 9th September 2019 23:30:23
Today I have 2 cross breds to show off! YAY!

First Up: Paradoxical
GP: 13699
Skills: 18022
Mix: 25% Fjord, Arab, GV, and Selle.
Ranking: 1st in Selle Stamina, 62nd in Gallop, 3rd-12th in most rosettes won by a Selle in western comps.

Next Up: Northern Wind
GP: 13387
Skills: 14712 (only stamina, speed and dressage are fully trained so far)
Mix: 50% Criollo, 25% Fjord, 12.5% GV, Selle
Won 7 rosettes in cutting comps so far.
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Hopeless♡Romantic
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By sequoia, 15th September 2019 05:00:39
What would the outcome be if I bred two horses with:

50 % thoroughbred
25 % Gypsy vanner
25 % selle francais ??

Mare is SFxGV and Sire is Thoroughbred

TIA
sequoia
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sequoia
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By Retired breeder, 15th September 2019 16:59:28
1
what is the best rosette winning cross? ive been doing sellex Thoroughbred and am really likeing it but am not sure if its the best
By I4Horses, 15th September 2019 19:25:47


Experiment! Selle x TB are fab for mid level gallop and jumping comps but won't quite reach the rosettes (but don't hold me to that....) I have a tab on my crossbreed farm with all rosette winners, take a look, they include;

Arabian x Selle
Arabian x Selle x GV
Shetland x Selle
Akhal Teke x Selle
Appaloosa x Paint x TB x QH (he's cool)

Lots of selle crosses lol.... the GP is just too desirable default smiley xd
I4Horses
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By I4Horses, 16th September 2019 21:17:09
My first 19k skill cross;

Worldwide Peace
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By AdmYrrek, 16th September 2019 22:10:08
This might be old news, but I just learned that line-bred F1 twins can have different breed orders. I knew different breedings out of the same line-bred F1 sire/dam pair could produce foals with different breed orders than their siblings, but I didn't know twins could differ.

Example:
Colt 1 and Colt 2 are twins out of the same line-bred F1 pairing. Both look like Percheron. But Colt 1's breed order is Perch/Drum, while Colt 2's breed order is Drum/Perch.

On another note, does anyone here do what I understand is called "Percentile Breeding" (i.e. where you effectively select for certain skill GPs rather than total GP)? I've been having loads of fun with it with my drafts—both purebreds and crossbreds—to favor Stam, Dress, and Jump as the top skills in the crossbreds.
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By BRM, 17th September 2019 10:40:11
1


I hadn't noticed, but that's very cool! I'll have to try that out sometime.

As for Percentile Breeding, that's also new to me. I don't pay much attention to individual GP since most the game is based on the total GP. But it sounds like the method that some breeders used to swap skills waaaaaay back, like how some pure Morgans are Dress, Jump, Speed and some lines are Dress, Jump, Stam.
BRM
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By Legacy Ann, 17th September 2019 16:43:14
1
Pretty much all of my cross projects are based on looking for individual GP stats, rather than total, unless I'm misunderstanding the post? I don't line breed through generations though. Since GP gets outdated so quickly and I take breaks between projects, I just breed a new cross each time. You have to look at the top 3 skills needed for a particular comp if you want to win rosettes, or target train, so looking at total GP doesn't usually work for me.

For example, I tend to specialize in breeding Gypsy Vanners with speed as one of their top 3 skills because they'll make great trot, jump and gallop compers.

One of my tougher projects was Frasers of Lovat back in 2016. The first horse I bred for that project was to have at least 1000GP in each stat, which was really difficult to breed for at the time, and I spent days pouring over spreadsheets to find the right stats to cross.

I had a lot of fun with my Cross Switch project, where the goal was to get a cross whose skills were the opposite of its purebred counterpart. I went with a Haflinger, and ended up with Twimbrel. His top skills are trot, speed and jump, rather than the stamina, dressage and gallop of a purebred Haflinger.
Legacy Ann
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By BRM, 17th September 2019 17:46:09


I've had projects that did require looking at individual skills, but not necessarily the actual GP of said skills. Like my shelved Western Morgans, I'd breed to try to change up their skills to more coincide with Western comps. Buuuuut it got to be too much work for certain ones and I just got busy because of work. Morabs I breed because well....they haven't been added to the game.
BRM
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By RowanGreen, 17th September 2019 17:58:30
1
I think you'd have to breed over a lot of generations to get percentile breeding to work.

Seems to me a lot of successful crosses depend on having a horse of a lower GP breed crossed with a high GP breed to make the result better for the low GP breed. For example, Selle X KWPN, with the foal being KWPN dominant, means the foal can beat purbred KWPNs at Jumping. But what if you wanted to breed something to take on the Selles in the Grandprix? There's probably not a cross you can do that would take them on with only a couple of generations.

Because the Selle's have a good profile for jump, and high GP, to do better with a cross you'd probably have to breed it with higher GP. KWPN X Selle doesn't have as good a Jump profile as pure Selle, and therefore a crossbred can't beat a pure Selle at the same (highest available) GP. (I am of course assuming the inborn and training skills are the same in both horses...)

But if you could breed a cross to have a better jump profile, and a high GP then you could beat the Selles.

For example (I don't know if these are anywhere near correct figures, I'm just illustrating), Say the best Selles in the Game have 80% of their skills in Jump, Dressage and Speed, including 30% of their total skills in Jump..

You breed a cross that has 35% in jump... but if only 50% of it's skills are in jump, dressage and speed, then it's not going to beat a Selle of the same of the same GP. Reason being, a higher amount of that GP is going on useless skills like trot and stamina.

However if you could take that cross and breed it for generations to take down the trot and stamina, while keeping the high jump, then you'd eventually, in theory, get something that could take on the high GP Selles.

Of course, in that example, you'd probably be a lot quicker percentile breeding the Selles... but then it wouldn't be a crossbreeding project!default smiley xd

There may be other top breeds where crossbreeding a better profile might be more realistic. And I might be working on one of them...default smiley ;)
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By AdmYrrek, 17th September 2019 18:00:02


From what I've understood "Percentile Breeding" is—and what I'm doing—is looking at a crop of foals (drafts in my case, which makes for an easy, finite cohort to examine) and select the ones where the desired skill that is being selected for is a higher percentage and the undesired skill that is being selected against is a lower percentage. Or, in more complicated systems, selecting for percentile spreads between skills to favor one at the expense of another.

For example:
I'm currently playing with a line-bred Shire line (see here and here for the twins of my current generation) where I'm putting selection pressure to ultimately shift their top three skills from Stam/Dress/Trot to Stam/Dress/Jump as well as maintain that set when crossed with Perch. I'm doing this because I want to try to incorporate them into my existing dressage crossbreeding programs that have the same top three skills by eventually breeding that line to a line of Perch.

So in each generation, I'm picking the pair of foals that have the lowest Trot:Jump ratio ((Trot GP - Jump GP) / Total GP) to put selection pressure towards a lower Trot and higher Jump. When I succeed in flipping Trot as the third top skill to Jump, I will then shift my selection pressure to wanting the highest Jump:Trot ratio ((Jump GP - Trot GP) / Total GP) to continue the growth of that spread.

Since I know Speed and Dressage can be a problem when crossing with Perch, I'm also selecting for the highest Dress: Speed ratio ((Dress GP - Speed GP) / Total GP).

Theoretically, these two selection pressures will produce a line of Shire that—when crossed with a Perch of a similar GP—will produce an F1 Perch/Shire with Stam/Dress/Jump as their top three skills. I'm also planning to work on a low-speed Perch line for the purpose, but that's some time away yet.
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By AdmYrrek, 17th September 2019 18:09:53
For me, "success" is "achieving my goals." And my goals are to produce Perch-looking draft crosses that have Stam/Dress/Jump as their top three skill set. Why?

• (Perch look) I think the Perch look is attractive while the Shire and Drum look is ugly;
• (Draft) I can make a decent pass income on the culls plus the ones I keep are good AP hunters given their x2 lesson earnings; and
• (Stam/Dress/Jump) I have found this a relatively easy, low-cost skill set to BULP satisfactorily to 6 years old.

...I don't care about rankings or winning competitions (besides what's necessary for BLUPing).
AdmYrrek
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